it is the most important issue for every single german. you cant leave the house without the neighbour asking you about your opinion on nefertiti. i havent slept for weeks, thats how outraged i am.
FKAMimikyu on
Should be returned
Psio_nauto_73 on
Give it back
[deleted] on
[removed]
0110Yen_Lo on
Never give nefer titis back. We keeping them tities.
ubus99 on
Stolen artifacts are an important aspect of Decolonization, so I support their return.
But I would like for it to happen in a conciliatory way if possible, e.g. first producing a replica to display in the German / European museum & making it easy for European scientists to get access to the originals.
eats-you-alive on
They are free to buy it.
I fail to see how Egypt is entitled to this, they allowed the archeologists to dig it up, after all. If the contract included a „but we get to keep it“ clause it’s the first time I’m hearing this.
Kitchen-Isopod-8380 on
As a Non German POC, as much as it sounds virtuous to say “Yeah everything should be returned back” , just look at the state of museums in a lot of countries in the middle east or even heritage sites and if we arent able to take care of the small percentage of things remaining in our disposal then I don’t think we should have the audacity to be asking the British or anyone for that matter to return the other things
Cirenione on
It gets complicated with artefacts. Who has legal ownership or should have legal ownership and so on. Especially when it’s items which have changed hands over centuries if not millennia.
I think, in general, artefacts should go to the country of origin which is free to lend it to exhibitions around the world. I also think Germany is far from the biggest offender considering how many artefacts were given back over the last few decades. The behaviour of the British Museum on the other hand is definitely disgusting when it comes to handing stuff back.
Gods_Mime on
haha
Haia-Hai on
Create a replica and return the real one.
It’s not supposed to be in Germany in the first place.
If it’s just standing in a museum to be looked at by people they can stare at a replica.
Parzival_1851 on
Egypt didn’t care about its heritage and let others do the work to retrieve their artifacts.
After others have put in the work but it actually turned out worthwhile, they want their share.
I get why’d they want items like these back. But unlike the Benin statues which were given back, these items weren’t stolen, so I don’t really see a moral obligation to return them.
PadishaEmperor on
Do those and other artifacts belong to a specific people or to a geographical region? I think basing it on a region is ridiculous, since land cannot have ownership on anything. And basing it on nation/people is also problematic; here I don’t think that the Ancient Egyptian people are the same nation/people as current Egyptians. Too much time has passed since then. Those groups speak totally different languages, have a totally different religion, have mostly different customs (mostly; female genital mutilation is for example ancient; some dishes have probably survived in some form), have totally different artstyles. The only things that really have survived is the region and the DNA. Can either of those be the justification on ownership of artifacts?
If someone found a bronze sword from 3000 years ago inside the borders of modern day Germany and were it in an Egyptian museum I wouldn’t care about it, since it isn’t really German.
ChuckCarmichael on
It’s unfortunately a difficult topic.
See the Benin Bronzes for example, thousands of metal plaques that were taken from the royal palace of Benin, part of modern day Nigeria. Many of them were kept in German museums but were recently given back to Nigeria so that the Nigerian people would be once again in possession of their cultural heritage. But the Nigerian government, instead of displaying them in a museum as promised, just gave them all to one rich dude who keeps them locked away in his basement. So now museums around the world are gonna keep the ones they still have.
So Nigerians would’ve actually been more able to see their cultural heritage while it was in Berlin than they’ll ever be now that it has been returned.
Kraichgau on
I see these important artifacts much better protected here. Ask again in 50 years, and see if they have a stable democracy then.
Cart700 on
The recent episode of the bridges podcast either with milo rossi or with both flint dibble and milo they talked about this.
Basics are, yes every artifact should be returned and most often countries receiving their artifacts back are willing to loan out the artifact to different museums and/or give some other artifact in return.
My opinion is that, yes absolutely artifacts should be returned and maybe just a faithful copy of it kept.
SchlonglDongl on
idgaf
SEKenjoyer21 on
I literally could not care less about their artifacts. They can have them all back for all i care. We got enough museums filled with german stuff. We do not need their artifacts.
19 Comments
Finders keepers
it is the most important issue for every single german. you cant leave the house without the neighbour asking you about your opinion on nefertiti. i havent slept for weeks, thats how outraged i am.
Should be returned
Give it back
[removed]
Never give nefer titis back. We keeping them tities.
Stolen artifacts are an important aspect of Decolonization, so I support their return.
But I would like for it to happen in a conciliatory way if possible, e.g. first producing a replica to display in the German / European museum & making it easy for European scientists to get access to the originals.
They are free to buy it.
I fail to see how Egypt is entitled to this, they allowed the archeologists to dig it up, after all. If the contract included a „but we get to keep it“ clause it’s the first time I’m hearing this.
As a Non German POC, as much as it sounds virtuous to say “Yeah everything should be returned back” , just look at the state of museums in a lot of countries in the middle east or even heritage sites and if we arent able to take care of the small percentage of things remaining in our disposal then I don’t think we should have the audacity to be asking the British or anyone for that matter to return the other things
It gets complicated with artefacts. Who has legal ownership or should have legal ownership and so on. Especially when it’s items which have changed hands over centuries if not millennia.
I think, in general, artefacts should go to the country of origin which is free to lend it to exhibitions around the world. I also think Germany is far from the biggest offender considering how many artefacts were given back over the last few decades. The behaviour of the British Museum on the other hand is definitely disgusting when it comes to handing stuff back.
haha
Create a replica and return the real one.
It’s not supposed to be in Germany in the first place.
If it’s just standing in a museum to be looked at by people they can stare at a replica.
Egypt didn’t care about its heritage and let others do the work to retrieve their artifacts.
After others have put in the work but it actually turned out worthwhile, they want their share.
I get why’d they want items like these back. But unlike the Benin statues which were given back, these items weren’t stolen, so I don’t really see a moral obligation to return them.
Do those and other artifacts belong to a specific people or to a geographical region? I think basing it on a region is ridiculous, since land cannot have ownership on anything. And basing it on nation/people is also problematic; here I don’t think that the Ancient Egyptian people are the same nation/people as current Egyptians. Too much time has passed since then. Those groups speak totally different languages, have a totally different religion, have mostly different customs (mostly; female genital mutilation is for example ancient; some dishes have probably survived in some form), have totally different artstyles. The only things that really have survived is the region and the DNA. Can either of those be the justification on ownership of artifacts?
If someone found a bronze sword from 3000 years ago inside the borders of modern day Germany and were it in an Egyptian museum I wouldn’t care about it, since it isn’t really German.
It’s unfortunately a difficult topic.
See the Benin Bronzes for example, thousands of metal plaques that were taken from the royal palace of Benin, part of modern day Nigeria. Many of them were kept in German museums but were recently given back to Nigeria so that the Nigerian people would be once again in possession of their cultural heritage. But the Nigerian government, instead of displaying them in a museum as promised, just gave them all to one rich dude who keeps them locked away in his basement. So now museums around the world are gonna keep the ones they still have.
So Nigerians would’ve actually been more able to see their cultural heritage while it was in Berlin than they’ll ever be now that it has been returned.
I see these important artifacts much better protected here. Ask again in 50 years, and see if they have a stable democracy then.
The recent episode of the bridges podcast either with milo rossi or with both flint dibble and milo they talked about this.
Basics are, yes every artifact should be returned and most often countries receiving their artifacts back are willing to loan out the artifact to different museums and/or give some other artifact in return.
My opinion is that, yes absolutely artifacts should be returned and maybe just a faithful copy of it kept.
idgaf
I literally could not care less about their artifacts. They can have them all back for all i care. We got enough museums filled with german stuff. We do not need their artifacts.