The core idea is actually fine here but the execution seems insane.
Wait until the patients are home and recovering as outpatients, why bother them on the ward?
I work on a rather large project that aims to get young people back into education and work, it is something the majority want, with most just needing some extra support, guidance, opportunity and systems to aid them.
Obviously getting people back into work and off benefits has huge cost savings financially too over the long term.
TeenySod on
Seriously, policy designers need to experience the real world.
I don’t have a degree. I don’t consider myself especially intelligent or insightful or whatever, so if I can see something is bonkers, and an obvious easier/cheaper to administer solution then WHY can’t all those supposedly clever people who are running the country?
Said solution: if they are long term patients, it would be far better to charge adults accommodation costs if they are in hospital long term and don’t have any other home expenses (many don’t). They would be paying for food and household expenses if they were living anywhere else.
Yes, there would be howls of outrage about having to pay for healthcare. Tabloid press gonna tabloid press, anyone with any sense can understand that it’s not the medication, nursing, etc they are paying for (which is the expensive bit), it’s their food and accommodation.
Unless job coaches are experienced with working with people in mental health settings, and you can’t tell me there will be enough of those around, this is doomed to be an expensive failure.
Charming-Raspberry77 on
This is horrifying. One finally makes the step to seek help and while in the mental ward, gets told „it’s all in their head, work is good for you“. She should be made to volunteer in such a ward before making statements such as this.
serena22 on
Breaching patient confidentially to interrupt someone’s emergency mental health care, with a job search. What could possibly go wrong.
Do these people realize that a not small amount of sectionable mental health episodes, are directly because of people feeling hopeless because of the pip process?
I can’t see any mental health professional, nurse or doctor actually allowing these people access to their patients.
Random_Reddit_bloke on
“Hi, I’m from the government. Now, I know those horrid little scars across your wrists are still healing, but have you ever considered working in a call centre?”
Ruhail_56 on
You will slave and work until you die whether you like it or not! All glory to the GDP of the city of London.
Blandinio on
Considering the drastic rise in the number of beneficiaries who have mental health issues unfortunately this is a necessary step
bintasaurus on
Jesus fucking Christ that’s an awful idea …they are IN patient for a reason,that reason being extremely unwell
I have schizophrenia and have been on many a ward,I simply cannot fathom the reasoning behind this, people need to get better on a ward,not be harassed regarding a job in Poundland…fuck off with this….wait until at least they are an outpatient
MR-DEDPUL on
Certain mental health teams already have Individual Placement Support to help service users access employment as part of their recovery and service users opt in to see IPS. This makes little sense.
Minimum-Geologist-58 on
This project does seem to be based on hospital initiatives. I think people are looking through the glass a bit darkly as to how this would be implemented? I don’t think it’s being advocated for those in the midst a mental health crisis, I imagine (the article is a bit light on details) that it would be more towards the end of care when people are looking to leave hospital.
What’s wrong with better equipping people to get a job at that point? I really don’t like this advocacy for completely writing people off from work for life and bunging them onto disability (what a party!) just because they’ve been in hospital for a mental health issue. It’s not cruel to help people find work.
TMDan92 on
While I think having a more holistic and joined up care and social support system is a worthy goal, this just smacks of our base societal problem which views individuals as units of labour first and human beings second.
pierrottheclown1 on
The main problem with this is visiting patients on wards.
Due to the number of inpatient beds being reduced in the community many patients being admitted to wards nowadays have highly acute psychiatic problems that are complex to manage ( e.g. schizophrenia, bipolar type 1) alongside lots of other social problems (e.g. homelessness). Due to the above many simply won’t be in a position to discuss employment.
I also can’t imagine short staffed ward staff being overjoyed at the prospect of employment specialists.visiting
Better to wait until someone is in the community and at least reasonably stable before exploring employment
BoxOfUsefulParts on
An inexperienced pen-pusher is going to find themselves injured or witnessing behaviour they are not trained for as they push a client into a manic, or self-harming etc episode with their useful advice.
I have just been pushed from ESA to UC and that process has resulted in a huge decline in my mental health. I have come to the attention of my GP and been assessed by two higher level mental health facilities, prescribed new meds, and I am stabilising now with a much higher level of support than previously. Nobody in their right mind would employ me, not even the charities I volunteer for.
After being unable to remember conversations with my work coach and unable to remember that I made notes during mental health appointments, I now precede all phone appointments with a reminder that I have short term memory and cognitive loss during high stress situations. I have requested private rooms for any job centre visits because my panic attacks are disturbing to job seekers and untrained work coaches. Then the folks in Wolverhampton lost my Health Assessment form, that cost me three days of rolling panic attacks to fill in, and could have cost me my life.
They switched all mentally and physically disabled people they could in my area from disablity benefits to UC but the local work coaches are not trained for the particular individual needs and the ways we present ourselves.
I am not fixed by the DWP I am more broken. And less able to present as fully functioning if slightly eccentric.
They have no idea what they are getting into.
uknihilist on
Well what’s your solution then Redditors? Social care is by far the most expensive overhead in this country. It has to be funded by taxes. Taxes come from working folk. Someone has to generate the money. Someone has to police, care, staff the armed forces etc right? Right?
goodneth on
If you’ve been hospitalised for a mental health problem it’s very likely you’re already in work and overwhelmed/ having a nervous breakdown or at the other end of the spectrum so very mentally ill you’re virtually unemployable. I doubt many people who are jobless wanderers are mentally ill, many of them live better than the employed ad they have more free time and are more likely to be close to family. (As many people who work have to move for their job or can’t afford to have a family as they’re not entitled to benefits).
Osopawed on
The UK government plans to place job coaches in mental health wards to help *seriously ill* patients return to work, aiming to *reduce disability benefit costs.*
**”aiming to reduce disability benefit costs”**
That’s all there is to see here, it’s about money, and targeting the “Seriously ill” to save money.
Just tax the rich, then there is no need to put pressure on the vulnerable people who are already struggling.
OliLombi on
So, a person could have schizophrenia and hallucinating demons trying to kill them (and suffering greatly because of it) and some person is going to visit them and talk about them working? Is this a joke?
What a waste of money.
Small-Disaster3054 on
And so continues the “Arbeit macht frei” mentaltiy of Government, this time with Labour carrying the banner
Crafty-Sand2518 on
Remember when everyone was saying that Starmer’s Labour was only putting up a show when praising Thatcher and how they are in no way, no how, going to be the Red Tories they were telling us they were going to be? And anyone saying the contrary was labelled as a bot and grifter?
Yeah turns out if someone tells you they’re a shitbag corporate ghoul, you should believe them.
GayPlantDog on
ONly 2 weeks and i’m out of this beyond vile country forever! Yippee!
20 Comments
The core idea is actually fine here but the execution seems insane.
Wait until the patients are home and recovering as outpatients, why bother them on the ward?
I work on a rather large project that aims to get young people back into education and work, it is something the majority want, with most just needing some extra support, guidance, opportunity and systems to aid them.
Obviously getting people back into work and off benefits has huge cost savings financially too over the long term.
Seriously, policy designers need to experience the real world.
I don’t have a degree. I don’t consider myself especially intelligent or insightful or whatever, so if I can see something is bonkers, and an obvious easier/cheaper to administer solution then WHY can’t all those supposedly clever people who are running the country?
Said solution: if they are long term patients, it would be far better to charge adults accommodation costs if they are in hospital long term and don’t have any other home expenses (many don’t). They would be paying for food and household expenses if they were living anywhere else.
Yes, there would be howls of outrage about having to pay for healthcare. Tabloid press gonna tabloid press, anyone with any sense can understand that it’s not the medication, nursing, etc they are paying for (which is the expensive bit), it’s their food and accommodation.
Unless job coaches are experienced with working with people in mental health settings, and you can’t tell me there will be enough of those around, this is doomed to be an expensive failure.
This is horrifying. One finally makes the step to seek help and while in the mental ward, gets told „it’s all in their head, work is good for you“. She should be made to volunteer in such a ward before making statements such as this.
Breaching patient confidentially to interrupt someone’s emergency mental health care, with a job search. What could possibly go wrong.
Do these people realize that a not small amount of sectionable mental health episodes, are directly because of people feeling hopeless because of the pip process?
I can’t see any mental health professional, nurse or doctor actually allowing these people access to their patients.
“Hi, I’m from the government. Now, I know those horrid little scars across your wrists are still healing, but have you ever considered working in a call centre?”
You will slave and work until you die whether you like it or not! All glory to the GDP of the city of London.
Considering the drastic rise in the number of beneficiaries who have mental health issues unfortunately this is a necessary step
Jesus fucking Christ that’s an awful idea …they are IN patient for a reason,that reason being extremely unwell
I have schizophrenia and have been on many a ward,I simply cannot fathom the reasoning behind this, people need to get better on a ward,not be harassed regarding a job in Poundland…fuck off with this….wait until at least they are an outpatient
Certain mental health teams already have Individual Placement Support to help service users access employment as part of their recovery and service users opt in to see IPS. This makes little sense.
This project does seem to be based on hospital initiatives. I think people are looking through the glass a bit darkly as to how this would be implemented? I don’t think it’s being advocated for those in the midst a mental health crisis, I imagine (the article is a bit light on details) that it would be more towards the end of care when people are looking to leave hospital.
What’s wrong with better equipping people to get a job at that point? I really don’t like this advocacy for completely writing people off from work for life and bunging them onto disability (what a party!) just because they’ve been in hospital for a mental health issue. It’s not cruel to help people find work.
While I think having a more holistic and joined up care and social support system is a worthy goal, this just smacks of our base societal problem which views individuals as units of labour first and human beings second.
The main problem with this is visiting patients on wards.
Due to the number of inpatient beds being reduced in the community many patients being admitted to wards nowadays have highly acute psychiatic problems that are complex to manage ( e.g. schizophrenia, bipolar type 1) alongside lots of other social problems (e.g. homelessness). Due to the above many simply won’t be in a position to discuss employment.
I also can’t imagine short staffed ward staff being overjoyed at the prospect of employment specialists.visiting
Better to wait until someone is in the community and at least reasonably stable before exploring employment
An inexperienced pen-pusher is going to find themselves injured or witnessing behaviour they are not trained for as they push a client into a manic, or self-harming etc episode with their useful advice.
I have just been pushed from ESA to UC and that process has resulted in a huge decline in my mental health. I have come to the attention of my GP and been assessed by two higher level mental health facilities, prescribed new meds, and I am stabilising now with a much higher level of support than previously. Nobody in their right mind would employ me, not even the charities I volunteer for.
After being unable to remember conversations with my work coach and unable to remember that I made notes during mental health appointments, I now precede all phone appointments with a reminder that I have short term memory and cognitive loss during high stress situations. I have requested private rooms for any job centre visits because my panic attacks are disturbing to job seekers and untrained work coaches. Then the folks in Wolverhampton lost my Health Assessment form, that cost me three days of rolling panic attacks to fill in, and could have cost me my life.
They switched all mentally and physically disabled people they could in my area from disablity benefits to UC but the local work coaches are not trained for the particular individual needs and the ways we present ourselves.
I am not fixed by the DWP I am more broken. And less able to present as fully functioning if slightly eccentric.
They have no idea what they are getting into.
Well what’s your solution then Redditors? Social care is by far the most expensive overhead in this country. It has to be funded by taxes. Taxes come from working folk. Someone has to generate the money. Someone has to police, care, staff the armed forces etc right? Right?
If you’ve been hospitalised for a mental health problem it’s very likely you’re already in work and overwhelmed/ having a nervous breakdown or at the other end of the spectrum so very mentally ill you’re virtually unemployable. I doubt many people who are jobless wanderers are mentally ill, many of them live better than the employed ad they have more free time and are more likely to be close to family. (As many people who work have to move for their job or can’t afford to have a family as they’re not entitled to benefits).
The UK government plans to place job coaches in mental health wards to help *seriously ill* patients return to work, aiming to *reduce disability benefit costs.*
**”aiming to reduce disability benefit costs”**
That’s all there is to see here, it’s about money, and targeting the “Seriously ill” to save money.
Just tax the rich, then there is no need to put pressure on the vulnerable people who are already struggling.
So, a person could have schizophrenia and hallucinating demons trying to kill them (and suffering greatly because of it) and some person is going to visit them and talk about them working? Is this a joke?
What a waste of money.
And so continues the “Arbeit macht frei” mentaltiy of Government, this time with Labour carrying the banner
Remember when everyone was saying that Starmer’s Labour was only putting up a show when praising Thatcher and how they are in no way, no how, going to be the Red Tories they were telling us they were going to be? And anyone saying the contrary was labelled as a bot and grifter?
Yeah turns out if someone tells you they’re a shitbag corporate ghoul, you should believe them.
ONly 2 weeks and i’m out of this beyond vile country forever! Yippee!