British proposal looks so weird. We’d basically be the buffer zone dividing Europe from Asia. Anyone with some insight on what they wanted?
MauroFranti on
Big lost opportunity by Europe back then, on any of the enlarged proposals. Should have seen the job through against Turkey
Ma-urelius on
Which one would be reasonable?
Maybe the green one, I encapsulate most of the Tigran II armenia with the Kingdom of Cilicia era. Plus, the Artsakh region (Karabakh Council outline in this map)?
I wonder what history would be like if one of the other options were taken :/
ShahVahan on
Most of the proposals meant that a large portion of the population a good 30-40% would be Turks and Kurds. That doesn’t bother me so much because nationalism has been a disaster for the area. But I know damn well people on here would not like it.
Diasuni88 on
The Paris conference was not realistic. The first republic with all of Artsakh is fine with me
Key_Apartment1929 on
The Treaty of Sèvres was the only binding treaty with a legitimate Turkish government following the war. It can and should be enforced to this day, but the political will isn’t there.
Designer_Beyond_152 on
Is there a source for the ‘Wilsonian Armenia’ borders containing the claims on Javakhk and Artsakh? I thought it only concerned Armenia’s western frontier (Armenian–Ottoman border).
Also, the British proposal seems inaccurate. From my recollection of reading on the topic, the Wardrop plan would mean Armenia only received the Kars and Erivan governorates (+ Zangezur uezd added later as concession).
LowCranberry180 on
Interestingly most inhabitants of these areas today are Kurdish people. Was that the case before 1915 or Armenians were the majority
HistoriaArmenorum on
The best case scenario would have been if Russia continued in its 1828 Campaign and conquered Van, Taron, Erzurum to Erzincan. Without Pulling out with the Erzurum Armenians to Javakhk.
Then having a population exchange where the muslim populations of western armenia leave. while the armenians of Sebastia, malatya, cilicia, diyarbakir…etc are sent to Russian Armenia. and they resettle the depopulated parts of vaspurakan, kars, nakhichevan, alashkert Tayk, erzurum…etc. from 1828 onwards the armenian population in this scenario would be rebuilt and would grow to more than 5 million by the 1910s.
The 1828 migration of armenians from Erzurum to javakhk depopulated tayk and upper armenia too much. and the Hamidian massacres damaged the armenian populations of vaspurakan moxoene and taron. Avoiding both would have to be necessary to make the green sevres-esque armenia a reality.
in 1915 the best case scenario would have been to maintain alashkert kars and vaspurakan taron. manzikert and khnus. It would be possible to import the armenian populations from other parts of the Ottoman empire to repopulate the depopulated districts but we would not be able to hold on to erzurum.
9 Comments
British proposal looks so weird. We’d basically be the buffer zone dividing Europe from Asia. Anyone with some insight on what they wanted?
Big lost opportunity by Europe back then, on any of the enlarged proposals. Should have seen the job through against Turkey
Which one would be reasonable?
Maybe the green one, I encapsulate most of the Tigran II armenia with the Kingdom of Cilicia era. Plus, the Artsakh region (Karabakh Council outline in this map)?
I wonder what history would be like if one of the other options were taken :/
Most of the proposals meant that a large portion of the population a good 30-40% would be Turks and Kurds. That doesn’t bother me so much because nationalism has been a disaster for the area. But I know damn well people on here would not like it.
The Paris conference was not realistic. The first republic with all of Artsakh is fine with me
The Treaty of Sèvres was the only binding treaty with a legitimate Turkish government following the war. It can and should be enforced to this day, but the political will isn’t there.
Is there a source for the ‘Wilsonian Armenia’ borders containing the claims on Javakhk and Artsakh? I thought it only concerned Armenia’s western frontier (Armenian–Ottoman border).
Also, the British proposal seems inaccurate. From my recollection of reading on the topic, the Wardrop plan would mean Armenia only received the Kars and Erivan governorates (+ Zangezur uezd added later as concession).
Interestingly most inhabitants of these areas today are Kurdish people. Was that the case before 1915 or Armenians were the majority
The best case scenario would have been if Russia continued in its 1828 Campaign and conquered Van, Taron, Erzurum to Erzincan. Without Pulling out with the Erzurum Armenians to Javakhk.
Then having a population exchange where the muslim populations of western armenia leave. while the armenians of Sebastia, malatya, cilicia, diyarbakir…etc are sent to Russian Armenia. and they resettle the depopulated parts of vaspurakan, kars, nakhichevan, alashkert Tayk, erzurum…etc. from 1828 onwards the armenian population in this scenario would be rebuilt and would grow to more than 5 million by the 1910s.
The 1828 migration of armenians from Erzurum to javakhk depopulated tayk and upper armenia too much. and the Hamidian massacres damaged the armenian populations of vaspurakan moxoene and taron. Avoiding both would have to be necessary to make the green sevres-esque armenia a reality.
in 1915 the best case scenario would have been to maintain alashkert kars and vaspurakan taron. manzikert and khnus. It would be possible to import the armenian populations from other parts of the Ottoman empire to repopulate the depopulated districts but we would not be able to hold on to erzurum.