This has been circulating around and around for 40 years – didn’t they actually do this? Is there work to give people? You usually hear this one when unemployment rises, as if redundant people simultaneously ceased wishing to work.
Eulaylia on
Just make UBI universal already, most work is very quickly becoming automated and there’s a huge chunk of the population who CANT do anything above stuff that’s being automated.
Just make the lives of your citizens better for once.
Mellllvarr on
The whole point of benefits is to provide a safety net, take the safety net away and the social problems that arise will be far more acute.
A great measure would be to give money into specific government owned accounts and bank cards that can be seen, determining what exactly someone’s spends their benefits on, that would be a real eye opener.
Haemophilia_Type_A on
What is true:
That Universal Credit and job centres are not fit for purpose and do not remotely help people get into work. This is a fair enough point and it’s definitely the case that there is a need for reform. This will, however, need ADDITIONAL funding (to hire and train staff, to sponsor training programs, etc) and I am sceptical it can be implemented given the current benefits bill cuts that are in the budget.
What’s not true:
That a large portion of people are fraudulently claiming benefits-all studies and government research has shown it’s a tiny number of people. The vast, vast majority of people are valid in claiming benefits (be it disability or people seeking work) and attempts to further restrict what is already an incredibly punitive system will get people killed. Austerity led to 100,000 premature/excess deaths for this reason, and Labour wont be any different if they think they can cut their way to a functioning benefits system.
What is immoral:
Framing people on benefits and disability as scroungers, “a blight” (insanely ableist language), and a burden on society just because they cannot contribute as much to capital accumulation. Someone’s value as a person being solely tied to how much money they can make for their boss (or, more accurately, boss’s boss’s boss’s boss etc etc) i sinevitably going to lead to discrimination and hate towards disabled people, as well as those who simply are struggling to get a job.
Starmer says:
>But he promised not to “call people shirkers or go down the road of division” and said that instead ministers would “treat people with dignity and respect”.
But calling the benefits bill as a whole, which is almost entirely comprised of legitimate claimants (disabled people, those unable to work, those unable to find a job) a ‘blight’ is to cast entire populations as being bereft of value as humans. I’d rather they call us shirkers than use such vile dehumanising language ffs.
Are employers begging for jobs? I don’t know, but the idea that anyone can just get a job at will is not true, especially if you’re disabled or have mental health issues. Even minimum wage retail jobs in urban areas have 20+ applicants per role, and if you’re disabled (e.g., autistic or in a wheelchair) then you’re pretty much never going to be their favourite. I’ve had better luck applying for skilled, higher-demand (in terms of qualifications) jobs than I have retail, security, and hospitality jobs as the latter tend to be more discriminatory towards people with disabilities and mental health issues, in my personal experience. IDK if that is backed up by stats, but when 80% of autistic adults are unemployed (despite the majority of these having the cognitive capacity AND desire to get a job) it’s clear there are issues far beyond mere ‘benefits scroungers’ or whatever ableist and classist bullshit the right-wing media spouts.
As always, I loathe Liz Kendall with a passion and she is the enemy of the interests of disabled and poorer people.
Good_Old_KC on
Why just young people?
Shouldn’t this apply to everyone?
Khuros on
What about older upper class folk that quite literally never worked?
Hazelcrisp on
Yeah… if only someone would just give me a job already. I’ve been applying for months. I’m perfectly able. Can’t imagine how much harder it would be for someone who wasn’t.
_Monsterguy_ on
I keep seeing articles saying this sort of thing and I’m confused.
People already get sanctioned for refusing jobs/training, are young people excluded from that currently?
That seems unlikely, but it’s the only way I can make sense of it.
JayR_97 on
If you told me this was a Tory politician saying this I’d have believed you. Meet the new government, same as the old one.
MrGenRick on
We’ve lost the low skilled jobs. Half the population doesn’t have the potential to be a CEO.
We have millions of people we have no economic need for. The benefit system needs to react to that.
My solution? Stop benefits (unless literally unable to work through illness) and instead guarantee a government job to everyone.
Pick up litter, clean graffiti, plant trees. There’s then thousands of managerial jobs created by this for people to progress into. It’s not a dead end. There’s even a CEO position in it for someone that started at the bottom.
For most roles it would be a 4 day week (to allow a 5th day for job interviews) and 6 hours a day (to work around collecting kids from school). The job would be local and transport arranged.
The outcome? No one is sitting at home, everyone is adding value, all that benefit money is literally making your town better before your very eyes. People are learning skills. There’s no fraud – don’t clock in? No pay.
And if people think they’re too good for these jobs? Well, go get another.
Dignified, value adding and no bullshit tolerated.
_Monsterguy_ on
“our fantastic job coaches in jobcentres”
Sure.
pikantnasuka on
This was the system when I was issuing signing slips to NEET young people back in 2002 so why Liz Kendall or anyone else wants to pretend it is some sort of radical change is beyond me.
Anyway the training courses they send these kids on are absolute shit. A few days in a room with a bored and ill informed person mumbling their way through a presentation that has barely been spell checked and contains nothing of importance but which has been funded so you will sit through it or you won’t be deemed worthy of eating this month.
Or you can go and work full time in a supermarket and have your labour called ‘training’ and not be taken on permanently because why the hell would they choose employees with rights over a neverending supply of desperate benefits claimants instead?
People like Kendall always love the stick, love to talk big about punishing the people who don’t make their figures look good, but offer us *nothing* of worth at the other end.
12 Comments
This has been circulating around and around for 40 years – didn’t they actually do this? Is there work to give people? You usually hear this one when unemployment rises, as if redundant people simultaneously ceased wishing to work.
Just make UBI universal already, most work is very quickly becoming automated and there’s a huge chunk of the population who CANT do anything above stuff that’s being automated.
Just make the lives of your citizens better for once.
The whole point of benefits is to provide a safety net, take the safety net away and the social problems that arise will be far more acute.
A great measure would be to give money into specific government owned accounts and bank cards that can be seen, determining what exactly someone’s spends their benefits on, that would be a real eye opener.
What is true:
That Universal Credit and job centres are not fit for purpose and do not remotely help people get into work. This is a fair enough point and it’s definitely the case that there is a need for reform. This will, however, need ADDITIONAL funding (to hire and train staff, to sponsor training programs, etc) and I am sceptical it can be implemented given the current benefits bill cuts that are in the budget.
What’s not true:
That a large portion of people are fraudulently claiming benefits-all studies and government research has shown it’s a tiny number of people. The vast, vast majority of people are valid in claiming benefits (be it disability or people seeking work) and attempts to further restrict what is already an incredibly punitive system will get people killed. Austerity led to 100,000 premature/excess deaths for this reason, and Labour wont be any different if they think they can cut their way to a functioning benefits system.
What is immoral:
Framing people on benefits and disability as scroungers, “a blight” (insanely ableist language), and a burden on society just because they cannot contribute as much to capital accumulation. Someone’s value as a person being solely tied to how much money they can make for their boss (or, more accurately, boss’s boss’s boss’s boss etc etc) i sinevitably going to lead to discrimination and hate towards disabled people, as well as those who simply are struggling to get a job.
Starmer says:
>But he promised not to “call people shirkers or go down the road of division” and said that instead ministers would “treat people with dignity and respect”.
But calling the benefits bill as a whole, which is almost entirely comprised of legitimate claimants (disabled people, those unable to work, those unable to find a job) a ‘blight’ is to cast entire populations as being bereft of value as humans. I’d rather they call us shirkers than use such vile dehumanising language ffs.
Are employers begging for jobs? I don’t know, but the idea that anyone can just get a job at will is not true, especially if you’re disabled or have mental health issues. Even minimum wage retail jobs in urban areas have 20+ applicants per role, and if you’re disabled (e.g., autistic or in a wheelchair) then you’re pretty much never going to be their favourite. I’ve had better luck applying for skilled, higher-demand (in terms of qualifications) jobs than I have retail, security, and hospitality jobs as the latter tend to be more discriminatory towards people with disabilities and mental health issues, in my personal experience. IDK if that is backed up by stats, but when 80% of autistic adults are unemployed (despite the majority of these having the cognitive capacity AND desire to get a job) it’s clear there are issues far beyond mere ‘benefits scroungers’ or whatever ableist and classist bullshit the right-wing media spouts.
As always, I loathe Liz Kendall with a passion and she is the enemy of the interests of disabled and poorer people.
Why just young people?
Shouldn’t this apply to everyone?
What about older upper class folk that quite literally never worked?
Yeah… if only someone would just give me a job already. I’ve been applying for months. I’m perfectly able. Can’t imagine how much harder it would be for someone who wasn’t.
I keep seeing articles saying this sort of thing and I’m confused.
People already get sanctioned for refusing jobs/training, are young people excluded from that currently?
That seems unlikely, but it’s the only way I can make sense of it.
If you told me this was a Tory politician saying this I’d have believed you. Meet the new government, same as the old one.
We’ve lost the low skilled jobs. Half the population doesn’t have the potential to be a CEO.
We have millions of people we have no economic need for. The benefit system needs to react to that.
My solution? Stop benefits (unless literally unable to work through illness) and instead guarantee a government job to everyone.
Pick up litter, clean graffiti, plant trees. There’s then thousands of managerial jobs created by this for people to progress into. It’s not a dead end. There’s even a CEO position in it for someone that started at the bottom.
For most roles it would be a 4 day week (to allow a 5th day for job interviews) and 6 hours a day (to work around collecting kids from school). The job would be local and transport arranged.
The outcome? No one is sitting at home, everyone is adding value, all that benefit money is literally making your town better before your very eyes. People are learning skills. There’s no fraud – don’t clock in? No pay.
And if people think they’re too good for these jobs? Well, go get another.
Dignified, value adding and no bullshit tolerated.
“our fantastic job coaches in jobcentres”
Sure.
This was the system when I was issuing signing slips to NEET young people back in 2002 so why Liz Kendall or anyone else wants to pretend it is some sort of radical change is beyond me.
Anyway the training courses they send these kids on are absolute shit. A few days in a room with a bored and ill informed person mumbling their way through a presentation that has barely been spell checked and contains nothing of importance but which has been funded so you will sit through it or you won’t be deemed worthy of eating this month.
Or you can go and work full time in a supermarket and have your labour called ‘training’ and not be taken on permanently because why the hell would they choose employees with rights over a neverending supply of desperate benefits claimants instead?
People like Kendall always love the stick, love to talk big about punishing the people who don’t make their figures look good, but offer us *nothing* of worth at the other end.