> He was told he could not buy one or pay a penalty and a travel incident report was filed by the Northern conductor. Northern has asked him to explain what happened in writing within two weeks and warned that legal proceedings could follow.
Train people can be a weird bunch half the time. Guy made a mistake, tried to put it right, just give him the penalty if you must and get on with your day.
So many services are dirty, cancelled, late, or mindboggling expensive and that’s all fine, not a concern for train companies apparently. But if you make a slight admin error when getting your ticket, they can’t wait to dig their claws in.
Few-Role-4568 on
The article doesn’t clear this up. Can someone explain please.
It says the rail card can’t be used between 0400 and 1000 but the train he was on was the 1029.
Marcuse0 on
>They stipulate the card cannot be used for fares below £12 between 04:00 and 10:00, Monday to Friday.
>The rule does not apply in July and August, when Mr Williamson used his railcard on several similar journeys without falling foul of the rules.
This is unacceptably deceptive of the rail companies.
>”I said, ‘I am really sorry, this is my mistake, can I buy a new ticket?’,” Mr Williamson said.
>He was told he could not buy one or pay a penalty and a travel incident report was filed by the Northern conductor.
So he offered to pay a fine and buy a new ticket and they refused. Is this supposed to be an example that they’re hardnuts about this? Because all it’s making them look like is assholes persecuting a young man for no good reason.
fox_dren on
I saw OP post about this on twitter.
They mentioned they purposely scrolled down their app to Tickets listed after 10am because they were cheaper and never stopped to wonder why the tickets listed after 10am (despite being he same ticket) were cheaper.
LauraPhilps7654 on
Rail bosses should be in court for how much they’ve robbed British workers over the last 30 years.
LegalAdviceHope on
He was issued with a valid ticket. And if it was invalid, it should not have been issued or been clearly indicated at POS that it was only to be used during off peak times.
What is their defene when you can go online for a ticket and pay more for getting a ticket from a stations master? I save £20 by getting my ticket from a actual person than from using the machines or online where prices all sem to differ.
NGeoTeacher on
Combination or poor clarity over the restrictions of the railcard (which themselves are stupid – just make them valid on all trains, all the time) and jobsworths enjoying their meagre power. British trains already have an absurdly complicated ticketing system so it’s easy to make mistakes.
>They stipulate the card cannot be used for fares below £12 between 04:00 and 10:00, Monday to Friday.
The rule does not apply in July and August, when Mr Williamson used his railcard on several similar journeys without falling foul of the rules.
This is a daft rule.
The sensible course of action for the conductor is just to make him pay the difference or buy a new ticket. Nobody loses out and everyone saves time, money and stress, and can move on with their lives.
>Mr Williamson, a university graduate, was travelling to London via Manchester to take his driving theory test when the conductor told him his ticket was not valid because of the railcard’s terms and conditions.
I know this isn’t the main point of the article, but it seems bonkers he had to go to London to take his theory test. I’m assuming there must be a test centre in Manchester or Sheffield or other places much closer to Glossop than London. I’ve heard stories of people having to wait absurdly long to take their theory and this just seems to be more evidence of chronic underinvestment across all services.
UnderstandingTough46 on
I have a 90 min train commute in Australia. We basically have an Oyster card like system where you tap on or off it charges you the corret fare (which is a max of $10) ish per day. You can travel on any service. They made the fares cheaper specifically to encourage people to use the train instead of driving. The UK system seems like it’s specifically designed to encourage people to drive instead.
TheShakyHandsMan on
I had a similar issue about 10 years ago. My ticket was valid to one point on the line. I fell asleep and missed my stop. Conductor tried to issue me a penalty for going one more stop.
I refused to pay and ended up with a court summons.
Was already for my day in court and the legal representative of the train company took one look at the notes on the morning of the case and said that he’s not winning this and withdrew the case.
Never got to explain my case in court.
Delicious_Opposite55 on
I was going to suggest renationalising the railways but I realise now that it would be better for everyone if instead the entire country was just sunk into the sea.
Specialist-Guitar-93 on
I used to be a conductor. Every single depot had at least one of these bellend conductors who wank over being able to fuck someone over if they have had a bad day. I’d say 90% wouldn’t do shit like this is if it was an honest mistake.
A. I could never be fucked with the paperwork.
B. Why create conflict when you have several courses of action –
Warn him that next time you won’t let them off
Charge a new ticket
Pretend you didn’t see it
Words of advice
Also, someone below said conductors are incentivised to do this to the public. They aren’t. You’re actually more incentivised to issue a new ticket as it pushes you closer to a depot average of tickets sold that managers love to wank over. As an added bonus you get 5% on any tickets sold from your machine, so this guard was a real tool.
TynesidePanda on
If a University graduate can’t get his head around a simple concept then he’s not got much hope.
Did anyone ask him why he was travelling to London for a theory test too?
Fellowes321 on
It doesn’t always seem like it but judges are reasonable people.
I would be interested to hear what the judge has to say in this case.
Jensablefur on
Interesting how staff never seem to be brave enough to confront the guys who you regularly see hurdling over the ticket barriers on free rides…
streetmagix on
For anyone thinking that ‘well, a nationalised rail operator wouldn’t act this way’ this was on a Northern Trains which is run by the DfT.
We have a long way to go for the public to regain any sort of trust in the railways, nationalising it isn’t enough.
Reluctant_Dreamer on
> They stipulate the card cannot be used for fares below £12 between 04:00 and 10:00, Monday to Friday.
The rule does not apply in July and August, when Mr Williamson used his railcard on several similar journeys without falling foul of the rules.
How ridiculous to have such confusing terms of usage. No wonder he didn’t know when it keeps changing the bar on when it can be used
RachosYFI on
Train law is very serious and they can and will take you to court over this stuff. It happens a lot and if you’re interested lots of people post on this very helpful forum to help people write letters to the rail operators:
My uncles northern rain ticket man, he doesn’t give a fuck. No ticket, no problem. Going somewhere and it’s cheaper to get 2 tickets he’ll tell you. Like he says to me, the fucking trains going that way anyways, I’m not getting my day ruined because I challenged some nut job who pulled a tool on me over £3.70.
High-Tom-Titty on
I’m starting to think it really doesn’t pay to be polite and play by the rules. I saw a couple of men just tell the inspector to basically fuck off, and unless the police were waiting for them which I doubt they just got away with it.
zebra1923 on
So he was unable to buy a discounted rocket for his journey as it was before 1000am, so he bought a discounted ticket for a later service (10.29) and used it for the earlier service.
This doesn’t sound like a simple mistake to me, sounds like fare evasion which he is being prosecuted for.
DownhillPredicter on
It’s funny how as a native you’re more likely to be fined / prosecuted for actually having a ticket than the folks that fare dodge at Bicester Village.
21 Comments
> He was told he could not buy one or pay a penalty and a travel incident report was filed by the Northern conductor. Northern has asked him to explain what happened in writing within two weeks and warned that legal proceedings could follow.
Train people can be a weird bunch half the time. Guy made a mistake, tried to put it right, just give him the penalty if you must and get on with your day.
So many services are dirty, cancelled, late, or mindboggling expensive and that’s all fine, not a concern for train companies apparently. But if you make a slight admin error when getting your ticket, they can’t wait to dig their claws in.
The article doesn’t clear this up. Can someone explain please.
It says the rail card can’t be used between 0400 and 1000 but the train he was on was the 1029.
>They stipulate the card cannot be used for fares below £12 between 04:00 and 10:00, Monday to Friday.
>The rule does not apply in July and August, when Mr Williamson used his railcard on several similar journeys without falling foul of the rules.
This is unacceptably deceptive of the rail companies.
>”I said, ‘I am really sorry, this is my mistake, can I buy a new ticket?’,” Mr Williamson said.
>He was told he could not buy one or pay a penalty and a travel incident report was filed by the Northern conductor.
So he offered to pay a fine and buy a new ticket and they refused. Is this supposed to be an example that they’re hardnuts about this? Because all it’s making them look like is assholes persecuting a young man for no good reason.
I saw OP post about this on twitter.
They mentioned they purposely scrolled down their app to Tickets listed after 10am because they were cheaper and never stopped to wonder why the tickets listed after 10am (despite being he same ticket) were cheaper.
Rail bosses should be in court for how much they’ve robbed British workers over the last 30 years.
He was issued with a valid ticket. And if it was invalid, it should not have been issued or been clearly indicated at POS that it was only to be used during off peak times.
What is their defene when you can go online for a ticket and pay more for getting a ticket from a stations master? I save £20 by getting my ticket from a actual person than from using the machines or online where prices all sem to differ.
Combination or poor clarity over the restrictions of the railcard (which themselves are stupid – just make them valid on all trains, all the time) and jobsworths enjoying their meagre power. British trains already have an absurdly complicated ticketing system so it’s easy to make mistakes.
>They stipulate the card cannot be used for fares below £12 between 04:00 and 10:00, Monday to Friday.
The rule does not apply in July and August, when Mr Williamson used his railcard on several similar journeys without falling foul of the rules.
This is a daft rule.
The sensible course of action for the conductor is just to make him pay the difference or buy a new ticket. Nobody loses out and everyone saves time, money and stress, and can move on with their lives.
>Mr Williamson, a university graduate, was travelling to London via Manchester to take his driving theory test when the conductor told him his ticket was not valid because of the railcard’s terms and conditions.
I know this isn’t the main point of the article, but it seems bonkers he had to go to London to take his theory test. I’m assuming there must be a test centre in Manchester or Sheffield or other places much closer to Glossop than London. I’ve heard stories of people having to wait absurdly long to take their theory and this just seems to be more evidence of chronic underinvestment across all services.
I have a 90 min train commute in Australia. We basically have an Oyster card like system where you tap on or off it charges you the corret fare (which is a max of $10) ish per day. You can travel on any service. They made the fares cheaper specifically to encourage people to use the train instead of driving. The UK system seems like it’s specifically designed to encourage people to drive instead.
I had a similar issue about 10 years ago. My ticket was valid to one point on the line. I fell asleep and missed my stop. Conductor tried to issue me a penalty for going one more stop.
I refused to pay and ended up with a court summons.
Was already for my day in court and the legal representative of the train company took one look at the notes on the morning of the case and said that he’s not winning this and withdrew the case.
Never got to explain my case in court.
I was going to suggest renationalising the railways but I realise now that it would be better for everyone if instead the entire country was just sunk into the sea.
I used to be a conductor. Every single depot had at least one of these bellend conductors who wank over being able to fuck someone over if they have had a bad day. I’d say 90% wouldn’t do shit like this is if it was an honest mistake.
A. I could never be fucked with the paperwork.
B. Why create conflict when you have several courses of action –
Warn him that next time you won’t let them off
Charge a new ticket
Pretend you didn’t see it
Words of advice
Also, someone below said conductors are incentivised to do this to the public. They aren’t. You’re actually more incentivised to issue a new ticket as it pushes you closer to a depot average of tickets sold that managers love to wank over. As an added bonus you get 5% on any tickets sold from your machine, so this guard was a real tool.
If a University graduate can’t get his head around a simple concept then he’s not got much hope.
Did anyone ask him why he was travelling to London for a theory test too?
It doesn’t always seem like it but judges are reasonable people.
I would be interested to hear what the judge has to say in this case.
Interesting how staff never seem to be brave enough to confront the guys who you regularly see hurdling over the ticket barriers on free rides…
For anyone thinking that ‘well, a nationalised rail operator wouldn’t act this way’ this was on a Northern Trains which is run by the DfT.
We have a long way to go for the public to regain any sort of trust in the railways, nationalising it isn’t enough.
> They stipulate the card cannot be used for fares below £12 between 04:00 and 10:00, Monday to Friday.
The rule does not apply in July and August, when Mr Williamson used his railcard on several similar journeys without falling foul of the rules.
How ridiculous to have such confusing terms of usage. No wonder he didn’t know when it keeps changing the bar on when it can be used
Train law is very serious and they can and will take you to court over this stuff. It happens a lot and if you’re interested lots of people post on this very helpful forum to help people write letters to the rail operators:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prosecutions.152/
My uncles northern rain ticket man, he doesn’t give a fuck. No ticket, no problem. Going somewhere and it’s cheaper to get 2 tickets he’ll tell you. Like he says to me, the fucking trains going that way anyways, I’m not getting my day ruined because I challenged some nut job who pulled a tool on me over £3.70.
I’m starting to think it really doesn’t pay to be polite and play by the rules. I saw a couple of men just tell the inspector to basically fuck off, and unless the police were waiting for them which I doubt they just got away with it.
So he was unable to buy a discounted rocket for his journey as it was before 1000am, so he bought a discounted ticket for a later service (10.29) and used it for the earlier service.
This doesn’t sound like a simple mistake to me, sounds like fare evasion which he is being prosecuted for.
It’s funny how as a native you’re more likely to be fined / prosecuted for actually having a ticket than the folks that fare dodge at Bicester Village.
I love this social contract.