McWilliams and the Atlantic both commented this week on the fact the democrats lost because they had become a HR department.
The same could happen here if the main parties aren’t careful.
Telling people what to do, feel and think is a losing battle.
The likes of Joe Rogan are a huge influence on young men and are far more important than another study telling young lads they’re racist, misogynistic or “traditionalist”
boardsmember2017 on
A sad state of affairs tbh, I really thought we’d moved on from this backward thinking amongst the male population. We really should be helping be more supportive of young men as they grow up, and find their feet in society properly
VindictiveCardinal on
How do we address this?
Some stories I hear from female friends makes me terrified of having a daughter in the future for what she’ll have to experience.
CT0292 on
Survey says: there’s a lot of shitty people in this world.
Honey, we know this.
Accepting that I may have a problem and working on myself?
No! Resentment and anger.
Mossykong on
Two in Five men are gobshites.
nut-budder on
My blocked accounts are out in force on this thread
Substantial-Fudge336 on
Not surprising really. While not blaming them a lot of mothers can reinforce this to boys growing up.
A-Hind-D on
My traditionalist view is that I need to have a cup of tea with my toast for breakfast
Archamasse on
It’s kind of a compounding problem, because a lot of young women don’t want anything to do with lads with “traditionalist” views, and then those same lads just double down on the same philosophy in response.
The biggest Joe Rogan/Peterson heads I know got more and more convinced the longer they were single, which just meant they got weirder and less bearable for women to be around, and on the cycle went.
I think a lot of countries are going to wind up fostering S Korean style female separatist movements the more of a push this stuff gets.
PrestigiousExpert686 on
Men from my country hold these views and many of us live in Ireland now so these views more common now.
Confident_Reporter14 on
I think men (and women to a lesser extent) need to step up and politely call out their peers when they spout this American conservative bs. This “traditionalist” mindset festers because of our national fear of conflict.
If you’re unable to speak honestly with a friend, then they’re not really a friend.
ThreeTreesForTheePls on
Lot of irritated lads in here, and you’d think this was something new but cmon lads are we really shocked that more traditional/conservative Irish men also hold women in a different bracket than others?
It’s nothing new, and this seems pretty on par with other studies we’ve seen in relation to male/female power dynamics and relationships over the decades.
MouseJiggler on
“Traditionalist views include agreeing or being unsure on statements such as “men who don’t dominate in relationships aren’t real men” (52%), “a man’s worth is measured by power and control over others” (54%) and “real men shouldn’t have to care about women’s opinions or feelings” (46%).”
No. These are not “traditionalist” views, these are callous views.
Key-Lie-364 on
2/5 men are absolute cunts
I mean, that’s not news to any of us men at all.
StevemacQ on
Traditionalist values lead to thousands of women and children to suffer and die under the iron grip of the Catholic church. They’re evil.
LZBANE on
First thing I’d say is that as a man, I grew up in terror of this sort of shit so I know the toll it can take on a young man or woman only too well.
However, I think it would be a mistake to think this is just a social media grifter thing. There is an element of it, but it’s not the full picture.
I’ve listened to married men, men with partners and yes even the angry bitter ones and these views are held in the real world. It isn’t an age or circumstance specific thing, as much as this research would like to say it is, and an arm around the shoulder from an older man isn’t going to sort it out.
Social media plays a massive role. Economics plays a massive role. Our shifting gender roles play a massive role. It is a complicated, rising, global issue that just can’t be dismissed as ravings from the fringe of society.
Objective-Farm9215 on
So the majority of men hold progressive views.
Great.
Artistic_Day6896 on
If you’ve been alive for a few decades and have met many different men in that time, this won’t come as a huge shock.
SirTheadore on
Jaysus lads… some of ye are outing yourself here as exactly the problem 😂
blipblopthrowawayz on
Yeah definitely seeing it with a few fellas I know who are a mixture of single and married, more so from married lads because they hate that their partners call them out on their bullshit and lack of responsibilities with their kids. One lad in particular thinks it’s women’s fault he can’t have a few pints after work and drive home, fucking idiot.
Real “women poison industries” type of views especially in regards to women in the likes of sports or gaming, sports in particular I’m seeing a bunch of lads saying women shouldn’t be allowed talk about football, commentaries, etc. Left one Whatsapp group when it devolved into blaming women for ruining “man sports” and that women sports are woke jokes.
Not fully kept to men though, I know some women in their 30’s and 40’s who really went in on the conservative / tradwife stuff the last while. My sister and mother are like that and have been trying to plant seeds in my niece’s head to not go to college abroad and instead stay in the local area to have kids with another Irish man. (They think my niece needs to do her Irish woman duties to save Ireland).
OfficerPeanut on
Do people realise how harmful attitudes like this are to other men also? Policing what a “real man” is and does contributes to so many different harmful stigmas for men especially from the serious issues they face
(Edited because I’m illiterate)
ErrantBrit on
It’s quite funny, as my Irish partner (W30s) has delegated chores and called taking out the bins ‘mens work’. Quite enjoyed telling her bathing the baby and putting her to bed was womens work, allowing me 25 mins to myself – but she didn’t laugh.
Anyway, lads, amongst other things, you won’t get any long-term fun if you don’t listen to your partners opinion or feelings, even when they’re being unreasonable. FYI. Source: I’m nearly 40, used to be good looking, and have been shot down a lot.
UnknownTemptationnn on
Wait until you guys here about what Muslims think!
asdrunkasdrunkcanbe on
I think it’s kind of mad that for a while now, it’s been called out that the continued demonisation of men is a significant contributory factor to the popularity of the Tates and Rogans of this world.
And yet the media still pump out this stuff.
What we have here is ultimately a one-sided survey carried out by a organisation whose entire existence is owed to the actions of violent men.
The results are present as-is, but considered *prima facia* as evidence that there is a “problem with men”.
There are several glaring issues with that assessement:
1. It actually demonstrates that 90% of Irish men are forward-thinking and absolutely don’t hold toxic views on relationships
2. It sets no baseline for how many women agree with the minority of toxic men.
Maybe this is an all-society problem. Maybe women as a group hold **worse**, more toxic views on relationships than men do.
But we don’t know because they didn’t ask that. The only asked men, because from the start they set out with the agenda of gathering data to demonstrate that men are toxic.
And then the media happily accept these press releases and start broadcasting that, “Men are really shit and horrible to women, and we’ve got a real problem here. Men, you need to step up, be ashamed of your gender and stop being horrible cunts”.
And then they wonder why young men become more disenfranchised.
If you keep telling a good person that they’re horrible, they will eventually become horrible because they may as well become hung for a sheep as a lamb.
im-a-guy-like-me on
How doesnt life slap this outta people?
I could hate women, but like… I have a mother, and a sister, and I went to school and college with women and I work with women. They’re a bunch of bastards the same as men. No more, no less.
I don’t understand how you can get to adulthood and not realise you’re dealing with a driver not a car. The car is irrelevant.
dnc_1981 on
Theres no way 50% of men think like that. Must have been a very small group of people that this report is based on.
26 Comments
It’s a women’s aid survey
McWilliams and the Atlantic both commented this week on the fact the democrats lost because they had become a HR department.
The same could happen here if the main parties aren’t careful.
Telling people what to do, feel and think is a losing battle.
The likes of Joe Rogan are a huge influence on young men and are far more important than another study telling young lads they’re racist, misogynistic or “traditionalist”
A sad state of affairs tbh, I really thought we’d moved on from this backward thinking amongst the male population. We really should be helping be more supportive of young men as they grow up, and find their feet in society properly
How do we address this?
Some stories I hear from female friends makes me terrified of having a daughter in the future for what she’ll have to experience.
Survey says: there’s a lot of shitty people in this world.
Honey, we know this.
Accepting that I may have a problem and working on myself?
No! Resentment and anger.
Two in Five men are gobshites.
My blocked accounts are out in force on this thread
Not surprising really. While not blaming them a lot of mothers can reinforce this to boys growing up.
My traditionalist view is that I need to have a cup of tea with my toast for breakfast
It’s kind of a compounding problem, because a lot of young women don’t want anything to do with lads with “traditionalist” views, and then those same lads just double down on the same philosophy in response.
The biggest Joe Rogan/Peterson heads I know got more and more convinced the longer they were single, which just meant they got weirder and less bearable for women to be around, and on the cycle went.
I think a lot of countries are going to wind up fostering S Korean style female separatist movements the more of a push this stuff gets.
Men from my country hold these views and many of us live in Ireland now so these views more common now.
I think men (and women to a lesser extent) need to step up and politely call out their peers when they spout this American conservative bs. This “traditionalist” mindset festers because of our national fear of conflict.
If you’re unable to speak honestly with a friend, then they’re not really a friend.
Lot of irritated lads in here, and you’d think this was something new but cmon lads are we really shocked that more traditional/conservative Irish men also hold women in a different bracket than others?
It’s nothing new, and this seems pretty on par with other studies we’ve seen in relation to male/female power dynamics and relationships over the decades.
“Traditionalist views include agreeing or being unsure on statements such as “men who don’t dominate in relationships aren’t real men” (52%), “a man’s worth is measured by power and control over others” (54%) and “real men shouldn’t have to care about women’s opinions or feelings” (46%).”
No. These are not “traditionalist” views, these are callous views.
2/5 men are absolute cunts
I mean, that’s not news to any of us men at all.
Traditionalist values lead to thousands of women and children to suffer and die under the iron grip of the Catholic church. They’re evil.
First thing I’d say is that as a man, I grew up in terror of this sort of shit so I know the toll it can take on a young man or woman only too well.
However, I think it would be a mistake to think this is just a social media grifter thing. There is an element of it, but it’s not the full picture.
I’ve listened to married men, men with partners and yes even the angry bitter ones and these views are held in the real world. It isn’t an age or circumstance specific thing, as much as this research would like to say it is, and an arm around the shoulder from an older man isn’t going to sort it out.
Social media plays a massive role. Economics plays a massive role. Our shifting gender roles play a massive role. It is a complicated, rising, global issue that just can’t be dismissed as ravings from the fringe of society.
So the majority of men hold progressive views.
Great.
If you’ve been alive for a few decades and have met many different men in that time, this won’t come as a huge shock.
Jaysus lads… some of ye are outing yourself here as exactly the problem 😂
Yeah definitely seeing it with a few fellas I know who are a mixture of single and married, more so from married lads because they hate that their partners call them out on their bullshit and lack of responsibilities with their kids. One lad in particular thinks it’s women’s fault he can’t have a few pints after work and drive home, fucking idiot.
Real “women poison industries” type of views especially in regards to women in the likes of sports or gaming, sports in particular I’m seeing a bunch of lads saying women shouldn’t be allowed talk about football, commentaries, etc. Left one Whatsapp group when it devolved into blaming women for ruining “man sports” and that women sports are woke jokes.
Not fully kept to men though, I know some women in their 30’s and 40’s who really went in on the conservative / tradwife stuff the last while. My sister and mother are like that and have been trying to plant seeds in my niece’s head to not go to college abroad and instead stay in the local area to have kids with another Irish man. (They think my niece needs to do her Irish woman duties to save Ireland).
Do people realise how harmful attitudes like this are to other men also? Policing what a “real man” is and does contributes to so many different harmful stigmas for men especially from the serious issues they face
(Edited because I’m illiterate)
It’s quite funny, as my Irish partner (W30s) has delegated chores and called taking out the bins ‘mens work’. Quite enjoyed telling her bathing the baby and putting her to bed was womens work, allowing me 25 mins to myself – but she didn’t laugh.
Anyway, lads, amongst other things, you won’t get any long-term fun if you don’t listen to your partners opinion or feelings, even when they’re being unreasonable. FYI. Source: I’m nearly 40, used to be good looking, and have been shot down a lot.
Wait until you guys here about what Muslims think!
I think it’s kind of mad that for a while now, it’s been called out that the continued demonisation of men is a significant contributory factor to the popularity of the Tates and Rogans of this world.
And yet the media still pump out this stuff.
What we have here is ultimately a one-sided survey carried out by a organisation whose entire existence is owed to the actions of violent men.
The results are present as-is, but considered *prima facia* as evidence that there is a “problem with men”.
There are several glaring issues with that assessement:
1. It actually demonstrates that 90% of Irish men are forward-thinking and absolutely don’t hold toxic views on relationships
2. It sets no baseline for how many women agree with the minority of toxic men.
Maybe this is an all-society problem. Maybe women as a group hold **worse**, more toxic views on relationships than men do.
But we don’t know because they didn’t ask that. The only asked men, because from the start they set out with the agenda of gathering data to demonstrate that men are toxic.
And then the media happily accept these press releases and start broadcasting that, “Men are really shit and horrible to women, and we’ve got a real problem here. Men, you need to step up, be ashamed of your gender and stop being horrible cunts”.
And then they wonder why young men become more disenfranchised.
If you keep telling a good person that they’re horrible, they will eventually become horrible because they may as well become hung for a sheep as a lamb.
How doesnt life slap this outta people?
I could hate women, but like… I have a mother, and a sister, and I went to school and college with women and I work with women. They’re a bunch of bastards the same as men. No more, no less.
I don’t understand how you can get to adulthood and not realise you’re dealing with a driver not a car. The car is irrelevant.
Theres no way 50% of men think like that. Must have been a very small group of people that this report is based on.